tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post115776902760245458..comments2024-03-28T15:13:45.925+08:00Comments on Good Morning Yesterday: Duty Honour CountryUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1159591158472138572006-09-30T12:39:00.000+08:002006-09-30T12:39:00.000+08:00having serve 2years and 4 mths of NS in the police...having serve 2years and 4 mths of NS in the police force last october. and only gotten back from my first reservist training for a 3 weeks stay in.<BR/><BR/>the only thing i enjoyed about NS/reservist is the getting together and bonding with other guys my age from walks of life that i'd most probably may not come across in my normal day to day.<BR/><BR/>do i agree with the "defending singapore is my honour"? hard to say since i did not have the chance to actually train in a military unit. as opposed to my being in a paramilitary unit.<BR/><BR/>do i have anything valuable to contribute here? perhaps not, but should every other singaporean go through NS? yes they should. but they should be thought to understand why they are going through NS first before they get to hold a gun. because it never made sense to me to go through my training. not at least until the later parts of my NS life.<BR/><BR/>but even then. my opinions greatly defer from the regulars. it seems to me there's no real love for the country. just for the sake of a job that pays their bills.<BR/><BR/>did i resent my 2yrs and 4 mths? did i resent my reservist? surprisingly no i don't. what's probably surprising is i don't understand why my peers resent it so much. did NS made me a better man?<BR/><BR/>i dunno. but when people talk about foreigners taking away our jobs and such even though we serve NS... then how about our own people who go to foreign land and take up choicest job offers abroad?<BR/><BR/>that's all in my little melayu head.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158562266444189442006-09-18T14:51:00.000+08:002006-09-18T14:51:00.000+08:00We plant a tree to provide a shade for our childre...We plant a tree to provide a shade for our children in the future. Currently we are happily resting under the shade of a big tree. Who planted this tree ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158372938162272782006-09-16T10:15:00.000+08:002006-09-16T10:15:00.000+08:00I really don't know who is the ignoramus here. I t...I really don't know who is the ignoramus here. I think someone is right (was it Ivan?). This issue of NS has been debated for too long and it's really pointless to go on. I've said my last piece. And let's enjoy Chun See's lastest post!Chris Simhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08760501651748435844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158365849363021502006-09-16T08:17:00.000+08:002006-09-16T08:17:00.000+08:00Jimmy MunYou should pose many of your questions to...Jimmy Mun<BR/><BR/>You should pose many of your questions to the PAP - duration, pay and how you like to structure NS. They got the answers (and the power to do it) not oldies like us or even you. <BR/><BR/>Like one blogger said, you are debating on the merits of a government policy. Sure it has lost its meaning somewhat after so many decades. Don't you think oldies hate to hear the same ministers spinning the same old tunes, day in and day out?<BR/><BR/>You were in NS 10 years ago - the SAF has changed for the better by your time. Try to transport yourself back to the period 1967-1979, then you understand the situation. The system has improved but not the POLICY.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158338656375858282006-09-16T00:44:00.000+08:002006-09-16T00:44:00.000+08:00"As for the low fertility rate, it's a GLOBAL prob..."As for the low fertility rate, it's a GLOBAL problem, and not just unique to Singapore."<BR/><BR/>Such spectacular ignorance. Let me wake you up. Singapore has a total fertility rate of 1.06. Worldwide, fertility rate may be falling, but Singapore as a nation has the <B>LOWEST</B> birth rate. Japan has a fertility rate of 1.40. Italy has 1.28. Both countries are described to have a very serious greying problem. Only Hong Kong and Macau has a lower fertility rate, 0.95 and 1.05 respectively. No other territory where such statistics are compiled have a lower fertility rate.<BR/><BR/>Source: <A HREF="https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2127.html" REL="nofollow">CIA World Factbook</A><BR/><BR/>There is a good reason why Singaporeans do not realise the situation is that bad: both the politicians and the media avoid highlighting that we are in deeper shit than Japan or Italy.<BR/><BR/>Well, you dont want "lau peng" to fight? Then how do you explain Winston Choo or Ng Jui Pin? Are you telling me they were seriously incompetent years before their retirement as CDF? Not terribly reassuring to me either way.<BR/><BR/>If you add the NSF and the OR NSmen together, the number of boots we have today is easily double or triple that in, say 1975, not to mention we have a reserve of "lau pengs". Did you feel unsafe in 1975 because the number of boots were so few? So why are you so fearful if there is a cut in fulltime NS now? How many soldiers do we genuinely need? If your argument is the more the merrier, than it is time to include the women too. Heck, why not make NCC compulsory for all kids as well? And yes, make NS twenty years. Let's see how many Singaporeans will hang around to serve NS.Jimmy Munhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04927345822970412901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158336278353600052006-09-16T00:04:00.000+08:002006-09-16T00:04:00.000+08:00Thank you everyone for helping me see a record of ...Thank you everyone for helping me see a record of >50 comments. Jimmy is right. We old foggies don't like to think too hard. We rather reminisce about the good old days. Everyone is invited to read my <A HREF="http://goodmorningyesterday.blogspot.com/2006/09/tribute-to-humble-profession.html" REL="nofollow">fresh post.</A>Lam Chun Seehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01762020157703342970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158335544082555842006-09-15T23:52:00.000+08:002006-09-15T23:52:00.000+08:00Why indeed? And why do u suppose Taiwan and Israel...Why indeed? And why do u suppose Taiwan and Israel and Switzerland incidentally have different duration of NS? Can our population of 4.5 millions affords us the luxury of serving less time in NS? And with dwindling population, how do u think we gonna further cut our NS?<BR/><BR/>There's a reason why the generals come and go and seemingly so at their prime, in case u haven't known. Surely u don't want an army of "lau pengs", do u? How to fight a war??<BR/><BR/>As for the low fertility rate, it's a GLOBAL problem, and not just unique to Singapore. Is that news to you, too?<BR/><BR/>Let's not talk about "adequately addressing the needs of the citizens". I'd like to quote John Kennedy, cliche as it may sound... "ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country". Ahem.Chris Simhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08760501651748435844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158333168197453732006-09-15T23:12:00.000+08:002006-09-15T23:12:00.000+08:00Let me ask the questions again: Why must NS be 24 ...Let me ask the questions again: Why must NS be 24 months? Can it be 18 months, like what Taiwan have now? Can it be 36 months, like Israel, but with no reservist training? Can it be just 18 weeks fulltime, followed my annual refresher training, like Switzerland? Why is it that women are exempt? Why dont we follow the Israeli model and only exempt the married or pregnant women? (How's that for boosting the birthrate?)<BR/><BR/>Once you stop asking "Why?", you are no longer young. I suspect some of you were never young before.<BR/><BR/>Now let me ask you old fogies another question: If Singapore's defence is so important, why is it our bigwig generals are kept so young and come and go so quickly? The youngest Chief of Defence Force, Lim Chuan Poh, was only 37 when he assumed the post. You may point out that I am stupid and naive, but I happen to believe that experience is very important for effective leadership and it takes years on the job to gain that experience.<BR/><BR/>Oh, BTW, I am long done with my full-time NS over 10 years ago. If I am fighting to change NS, it is not for myself. Is that a new concept to some of you?<BR/><BR/>Singapore is a troubled nation. We have the highest emigration rate in the world. We have the lowest fertility rate in the world, far lower than that of Japan (Is that news to you?). The Singapore citizens are commiting population suicide. If the needs of the citizens are not adequately addressed, there may not be a Singapore in 50 years left to defend anyway. But of course, why would you care? You be long dead by then.Jimmy Munhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04927345822970412901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158332180320675082006-09-15T22:56:00.000+08:002006-09-15T22:56:00.000+08:00Well Jimmy, u just gave our big brother some fresh...Well Jimmy, u just gave our big brother some fresh ideas! Guess what, looking at the world today, the 20 year NS may just become a reality. Good luck.<BR/><BR/>Who's afraid of change? The world has changed. Conventional warfare remains a threat. But a bigger threat facing our home front is the threat of terrorism. So, young people (I assumed your are) should also change their mindset. Thankfully, not all think like you do. And not all oldies are "yes" men as you implied. Guess you've not taken enough taxi rides to chat with the uncles. The issue here is not about the old supporting NS or the young against it. I believe we have representatives from both groups. So just stop generalising.Chris Simhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08760501651748435844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158329721643003842006-09-15T22:15:00.000+08:002006-09-15T22:15:00.000+08:00Twenty year NS? Sorry lah Jimmy boy. We had our fu...Twenty year NS? Sorry lah Jimmy boy. We had our fun already. Now is the time to sit back and watch you guys get tekaned. Just hope that those army big wigs who you so freely badmouth are not watching this blog. Otherwise they surely will prepare a nice welcome for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158328179776221042006-09-15T21:49:00.000+08:002006-09-15T21:49:00.000+08:00Jimmy MunHow "old" is old and how "young" is young...Jimmy Mun<BR/><BR/>How "old" is old and how "young" is young in your opinion?<BR/><BR/>Do you refer to the oldies as being the government, the PAP or to those who have contributed their view?<BR/><BR/>Can you give examples of which oldies group still cling on to their status quo?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158323433263847412006-09-15T20:30:00.000+08:002006-09-15T20:30:00.000+08:00Hi Jimmy Mun, your view seems quite extreme to me ...Hi Jimmy Mun, your view seems quite extreme to me too. It is over simplistic to say that this discussion is about oldies (perceived to be blindly supporting NS and the government) who are arguing their case against the youngsters (whose loyalty are in question). Even the terms 'youngsters' and 'oldies' are vague - youngsters will turn oldies eventually but nobody can even draw a line neatly to separate the two groups. Can you?Victorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10339178864363140977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158309724693622342006-09-15T16:42:00.000+08:002006-09-15T16:42:00.000+08:00There is an obvious trend in taking extremes on th...There is an obvious trend in taking extremes on the matter in a Bush-like matter: either you are for NS or against NS. But this is an intellectually lazy approach. From what I see, most young Singaporeans are not against NS, but are speaking out about the length of NS, the pay and the reservist commitments. In contrast, the oldies are just clinging on to the status quo with dear life. If NS is so good, why not make it TWENTY years, and let the women and foreigners run the economy? If NS is contribution to the nation, why should the NSmen be reimbursed their wages? If all these oldies are so much into duty/honour/country, do they donate back their extra tax breaks/Progress package for NSmen back to the Singapore government? No? <BR/><BR/>Then all I see is the oldies just agreeing to whatever the government dishes out to them, with no ability to discern what is right or wrong.<BR/><BR/>What's worse, these oldies attempt to censor other Singaporeans by accusing them of being whiny or complain kings. Why? Because these oldies want to believe they did everything right. They fear change, unless the change comes from the government.Jimmy Munhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04927345822970412901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158262895310318702006-09-15T03:41:00.000+08:002006-09-15T03:41:00.000+08:00I agree with you on your last comment. If you feel...I agree with you on your last comment. If you feel that Singapore is your country, then do not complain and just do your duty.<BR/><BR/>For me, I did my NS and did not feel that Singapore was my country. So no complaints - I worked and saved enough and emigrated 5 years ago. Now I am very happy living in the US, thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158245772909501442006-09-14T22:56:00.000+08:002006-09-14T22:56:00.000+08:00Folks,I seriously doubt with all the arguments mad...Folks,<BR/>I seriously doubt with all the arguments made against NS, it will never be changed (even if the old leaders kick the bucket). Why? Think about it this way from a larger perspective; without NS would there ever be a "Singapore Technologies" company? Every time a new ship is built, a new plane is purchased or a new camp is built, the defense industry benefits. <BR/><BR/>Why should a country should give up an industry sector because some individual feels strongly about FTS not serving NS?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158241920393697702006-09-14T21:52:00.000+08:002006-09-14T21:52:00.000+08:00Right, Vic, loyalty has nothing to do with who for...Right, Vic, loyalty has nothing to do with who forms the government. Some people seem to link loyalty with government. Do they mean if this party forms the government I am loyal to Singapore, with that party I am not loyal. Ridiculous!frhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13402261314300053806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158241019265195362006-09-14T21:36:00.000+08:002006-09-14T21:36:00.000+08:00klimmer:Just some terminology here. The fitness sc...klimmer:<BR/>Just some terminology here. The fitness scale at my time was PES 1 or Physical Employment Standard 1 means combat fit. PES 5 means 'based employed'. Hence the term '5BE' (that was me).<BR/><BR/>still fighting fit:<BR/>I didn't misunderstand you. I was only stating my stand. Although you didn't put it down very clearly, I can tell that you are a supporter too.<BR/><BR/>anonymous (see 7 posts up):<BR/>"If war starts, i'll NOT put my life in danger for s'pore. PAP doesn't give a shit abt u, so why should u defend those bloodsuckers in wartime?"<BR/>The cold hard fact is this - when war starts, your life will be in danger, regardless of whether you are in the army or not. You only have the army to rely on to <B>keep you away from danger</B>. Remember how the nearly 3,000 victims of Sep 11 died? Most were civilians and they didn't even have a chance to fight back!<BR/><BR/>BTW, PAP is only the current government, it doesn't own the country. Citizens like you and I do.Victorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10339178864363140977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158211890702436162006-09-14T13:31:00.000+08:002006-09-14T13:31:00.000+08:00Victor and klimmer: Maybe you misunderstood me. kl...Victor and klimmer: <BR/>Maybe you misunderstood me. klimer, at no time did I put everybody down. I said those critical of NS and for some reason themselves did not serve NS. "For some reason" is used broadly--not necessarily medical reasons. Some didn't serve cos they were not citizens or PR. If these people have not participated, how would they know "it is a complete waste of the prime years of a man's life"? <BR/><BR/>The sad fact is most people only have small individual roles to play in the military. What they don't realize is all those individual roles form a much bigger picture. So how seriously you take your training affects how effective that army will be. <BR/><BR/>Defending this land is about defending your dignity, the sovereignty, defending Singaporeans. It is not about defending the policy makers who put you there, not about the talk cock kings with big mouths.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158204969075835292006-09-14T11:36:00.000+08:002006-09-14T11:36:00.000+08:00Anonymous 14 Sep 2006You mentioned you'll not put ...Anonymous 14 Sep 2006<BR/><BR/>You mentioned you'll not put your life in danger if a war starts. No one can force you. As for me, for the sake of my family and country, I will do so. But I am not sure if SAF is willing to take this lau peng back... who can hardly charge up peng kang hill and do a couple of chin ups.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158204698045611652006-09-14T11:31:00.000+08:002006-09-14T11:31:00.000+08:00finished but fighting fit:how many wars have you'v...finished but fighting fit:<BR/><BR/>how many wars have you've been in? Lots of bravado! (clap clap)<BR/><BR/>People bother to comment here because they love their country. And you put everybody down. Is PES 1 less Singaporean? They pay less tax? Are they immune from national security issues? I admire PES 1 but who still volunteer to do some small bit for NS than some 'no choice' fighting unit, super on officer. Back in OCS and brig recce company, I recall these guys are the most unreliable, dishonest talk cock kings - always recce from the rear.<BR/><BR/>only those who cannot argue convincingly feels the need to shout others down or tell them to shut up.<BR/><BR/>That's why the ministers can draw a million dollars each and there's no one to speak up. Because everyone has been 'shut up'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158203512370815922006-09-14T11:11:00.000+08:002006-09-14T11:11:00.000+08:00To "finished but still fighting fit" (see 3 posts ...To "finished but still fighting fit" (see 3 posts up):<BR/><BR/>I belong to category (1), not "cat 1" as in fighting fit or PES 1, but cat (1) as you have defined it, i.e. "not fit (for some reason) to be a soldier". But let me state categorically (pardon the pun) that I support the notion and practice of NS. Fyi, I did serve my NS in a service vocation and is still serving in the defence industry after 3 decades.Victorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10339178864363140977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158202375891131832006-09-14T10:52:00.000+08:002006-09-14T10:52:00.000+08:00Chris:I hate to point this out but this sounds a b...Chris:<BR/><BR/>I hate to point this out but this sounds a bit imperious. Allow me to explain:<BR/><BR/>"You want a better economy, you need to attract foreign investors. You want investors, they must have confidence in your country. To have confidence, you need stability. Stability? aahhh... that's where National Service comes it. Pure and simple."<BR/><BR/>Please allow me to refute this set of assumptions.<BR/><BR/>I think foreign investors are only interested in profits. This sometimes contribute to the economy when they give jobs, and when they pay their taxes. I think its more appropriate to say that its is a combination of attracting & moving capital (foreign or otherwise) and developing of domestic companies and the financial institutions which improves the economy.<BR/><BR/>I do not think investors care much about one's confidence in one's country. Koreans and Indians are known to be highly confident in their own country. However, their economy is still considered emerging markets with high risk for investors.<BR/><BR/>Many countries with no mandatory national service enjoy stability as well. Some of these stable countries have professional standing armies, while some others use mutual economic interests.<BR/><BR/>I have argued before that NS was created after '65 merely to give the new Singaporeans a semblence of ownership. It's not really meant as a deterrence. Does anyone really think you can deter say, Indonesia, back in the late 60's?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158170140599017202006-09-14T01:55:00.000+08:002006-09-14T01:55:00.000+08:00Just becos u r born in s'pore, doesn't mean u have...Just becos u r born in s'pore, doesn't mean u have to be loyal to s'pore. If war starts, i'll NOT put my life in danger for s'pore. PAP doesn't give a shit abt u, so why should u defend those bloodsuckers in wartime?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158165822836542402006-09-14T00:43:00.000+08:002006-09-14T00:43:00.000+08:00I have heard more criticisms than support for NS t...I have heard more criticisms than support for NS too. Those who criticise often fall into these categories: (1) not fit (for some reason) to be a soldier (2) was in NS but they couldn't figure out how they could benefit from what they learnt or were trained to do. My view: those in cat 1 should keep their mouths shut. Those in cat 2, I say this. If they continue to think "what's in it for me?" then life will be one self-centered quest. Pretty pathetic. <BR/><BR/>The army isn't just about the individuals. Of course, indivs count. But to those who think the army is less relevant given the current geopolitical climate, I wonder if they thought about this: Is the army revealing as much as we think it should? I think it may not be. Or not yet. <BR/><BR/>Many analysts and observers have thought for a long time that armies must learn to fight in urban terrain. That does not mean conventional methods are no longer relevant. Many armies have adapted in big or small ways to urban fighting too, including this one here. And it only revealed that in recent times.<BR/><BR/>Adaptability--that is the big key. The enemy adapts. So must we. Whether you are in the army now, in reservist, or done with it, continue to adapt. In real war, most of the rules and strategies you have been trained will go out the window. Technology may not work for the advance fighting units. Victory and survival goes to those who think out of the box. Think different. Think smart. The opponent holds his cards close to the chest. Wouldn't you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16760936.post-1158156229598827362006-09-13T22:03:00.000+08:002006-09-13T22:03:00.000+08:00I asked a friend, another 55-year old lau peng for...I asked a friend, another 55-year old lau peng for his views. He is Chinese-educated and a Nantah graduate, and doesn't blog. He has only this to say: <BR/><BR/>国家兴亡, 匹夫有责。<BR/><BR/>Whether a country propers or disintegrates depends on it's ordinary citizens.Lam Chun Seehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01762020157703342970noreply@blogger.com